tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10588797.post641824244525969337..comments2023-06-24T11:08:45.596-05:00Comments on For the Love of God and Humankind: "Glory, It's What You're Talking About"mattstephenskchttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16710700768667514897noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10588797.post-21028896329333007152007-12-07T10:59:00.000-06:002007-12-07T10:59:00.000-06:00The interesting thing is that the only people who ...The interesting thing is that the only people who really talk about God, Jesus, and the Kingdom virtually all the time are those who are in vocational ministry (or maybe preparing for it). The irony, then, is that they're simply talking amongst themselves, not being evangelistic.<BR/><BR/>Did you ever read my "Postmodern Pilgrim" post? I discussed the messy nature of evangelism in the pomo context, but failed to stimulate much discussion. I'm really curious to see what those who believe in evangelism (as opposed to liberals, who align themselves with the ideals of the WCC who pronounced an all-out moratorium on evangelism in the 70s)--I guess you would call those evangelicals?--think about relational evangelism vs. 'event' evangelism (I use event very loosely, not in the sense of 'crusades' but of corporate expressions of worship, music, art, fellowship, etc.). I argued that, in fact, event evangelism, built on a foundation of genuine relationships, is the ideal mode of evangelism for the pomo context. To me, it makes much more sense to simply glorify God in our daily conversation as we talk about what He's doing in our life and what we're involved in for the sake of the Kingdom (compassion initiatives, church activities, etc.), and then to invite people into the community of faith to both hear and experience the message of Jesus. This is the truest and fullest form of incarnational witness, I believe. Am I on to something here? Is "belong, then believe" truly the missional model of evangelism, as George Hunter has surmised?mattstephenskchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16710700768667514897noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10588797.post-32733751108622068602007-12-07T09:43:00.000-06:002007-12-07T09:43:00.000-06:00Thanks for the clarifications. I could see it bei...Thanks for the clarifications. I could see it being more important to be explicit within the worship context, and it is certainly necessary to verbally preach the gospel for anyone to hear it. My main concern was that I have heard people who have basically said "You should be explicitly talking about God all the time," and that this was the mark of faith.M. Andersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15355720086156463309noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10588797.post-50242338689273946132007-12-04T22:01:00.000-06:002007-12-04T22:01:00.000-06:00Hey, I'm so glad you were blessed by it. And than...Hey, I'm so glad you were blessed by it. And thanks for nuancing the conversation.<BR/><BR/>I actually have heard him give a talk on this subject, and he went into greater nuance with regard to what you just pointed out. 1 Cor. 10:31, all the way. At the end of the article, he pointed out that we ought not avoid talking about things other than God. In his talk, he emphasized, again, that we give glory to those things which we discuss, but said that that's not necessarily a bad thing in itself. I believe he intended it as more of a corrective for people who obsess about things that really, in the scheme of things, don't matter a lick, and who never so much as mention Christ or their faith in conversation.<BR/><BR/>I have spent considerable time sitting under Louie's teaching and worshipping under musicians he has mentored over the last decade or so, and my outlook on ministry has been forever transformed--renewed, I believe--as a result. In a ministry context, it becomes even more imperative that we attribute what we do to Christ--that we consistently articulate the fact that we're doing what we're doing for the glory of God. That, I believe, is one of the only hedges of protection against what Jesus admonishes us about in Matt. 6:1-4, "Be careful not to do your acts of righteousness before men, to be seen by them..." When we do good and fail to invoke God's name, then people will give us glory.<BR/><BR/>The argument that giving glory to the creation actually glorifies the Creator sounds convincing, but it goes against Scripture, from OT to New. (Not that this is what you were saying, but I thought it was worth mentioning.) We are meant to <EM>reflect</EM> glory to God, and certainly without our righteousness being seen by people at all, that can't happen (Matt 5:16). Just like you pointed out, when people see excellence of any kind in us--in how we behave towards others, in our work ethic, in the quality of our family relations, in the quality of the product of our work, and so on--they have reason to glorify God... <EM>if</EM> they know it is Christ we are serving (Col. 3:24).mattstephenskchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16710700768667514897noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10588797.post-21557561608499187112007-12-04T10:56:00.000-06:002007-12-04T10:56:00.000-06:00Good article, Matt. Definitely thought-provoking,...Good article, Matt. Definitely thought-provoking, in a good way.<BR/><BR/>I am left with a question, though. What does it mean to be talking about Jesus? I'm left with the impression that the articles advocates talking about God as a separate activity from talking about other topics. Which is necessary at times; however, this leaves us with the problem that we still would not be giving God the appropriate glory. We would still spend time with other things, and come back to God at the end of the day.<BR/><BR/>It seems that the response would be that we need to see all things as pointing toward God; sports are not just sports, food is not just food, creation is not just creation, but all in some way mirror and relate to the One who makes them possible. For some, their speech about non-theological topics is dripping with faith, even when this is not explicit; for others, speech about God is either empty or simply passionately inane. So, whether eating, or drinking, or whatever it is we are doing, we should give glory to God precisely in that activity itself.M. Andersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15355720086156463309noreply@blogger.com